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waited ants waited learning. from liverpool to los angeles he's on a mission to turn education upside down and inside out. ken, it's fabulous to have you here on the show talking about the most important topic that we could talk about and that's education, and it's interesting going through a lot of the work that you have done on education that you are not a reformist per se, but the notion of reform to you is the real change that needs to say not a evolution but a revolution in education. >> i think i tried. governments all around the world are reforming education but it's a slow process. and honestly doesn't seem to be working very well. we live in america for almost 11 years and score invites with no child left behind. the drop out rate has not improved. international comparisons are still very poor. and i think in almost every field. almost in any fields if it wasn't working you would stop and change. >> when you look at reform, do you look at it through the prism of what i would argue is the stale debates betwee
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